Freelancers working for peanuts won't ever get rich, and they won't let anybody else get rich either
Couple of days ago I posted a bid on a project that had a strict 3 days dead line and a budget $500 to $1000. I had already done something similar (recoding audio on Android devices and uploading recorded files to a cloud server). I proposed that I could deliver in 3 days and I would charge $900 including Elance fee. The employer replied and told me that my price was very high, I checked Elance and came to know that the highest bid on this project was $ 1015 which meant mine was not the highest certainly.
I told the client that I had already created a similar app and I was in right position to deliver a bug free app within given dead line. I also lowered my bid to $700.
Then the client closed the job, opened another one with a budget range of $100 to $500 and sent me a message about the new job. I wished him good luck with his project and didn't post bid for new one, I believe it would be a waste of time. The client then hired someone for $300(who had 20+ jobs on their profile), I got really pi**ed and that's why I am writing this post.
We often discuss why elance( and odesk) is flooded with $1/hour jobs, the answer is because we the freelancer act like beggars. We must have some self respect and we must show some dignity, otherwise we will always be struggling to meet the expenses and we won't ever get a good profit margin.
I told the client that I had already created a similar app and I was in right position to deliver a bug free app within given dead line. I also lowered my bid to $700.
Then the client closed the job, opened another one with a budget range of $100 to $500 and sent me a message about the new job. I wished him good luck with his project and didn't post bid for new one, I believe it would be a waste of time. The client then hired someone for $300(who had 20+ jobs on their profile), I got really pi**ed and that's why I am writing this post.
We often discuss why elance( and odesk) is flooded with $1/hour jobs, the answer is because we the freelancer act like beggars. We must have some self respect and we must show some dignity, otherwise we will always be struggling to meet the expenses and we won't ever get a good profit margin.
Colleen
All about form and function
Top Contributor
There will always be clients looking for a bargain and someone who will promise to deliver for less. You're right, Naeem, to fault "freelancers" who bid low. But consider that
a) we're competing globally and some freelancers have a lower cost of living because of their location -- they can afford to bid less -- and there are always "company" bidders who bid on everything, whether or not they are qualified;
b) some qualified freelancers are trying to build their reputation on Elance and are willing to work for less (they'll learn soon enough the kind of clients who award jobs to lowest bidders); and
c) bargain hunters often learn that they get what they pay for.
Just as freelancers gain experience on Elance, clients do likewise. Experienced clients develop a checklist that includes quality, communication, promptness, and professionalism.
I've had potential clients contact me, asking me to lower my bid because they like my proposal and experience but so many others have bid less. I just tell them that my bid is reasonable and that if price is their primary consideration, they should hire one of those low bidders. My continuing availability on Elance depends on the ability to cover expenses. And I know the value of my skills and experience.
Don't lose heart, Naeem. There are many new clients trying online freelance resources for the first time. They'll learn that it's not about finding a bargain, but about finding the talents and skills they need for their project. And you never know. The client you mentioned who hired someone for 1/3 your original bid may come back and BEG you to do the job because that low-bid freelancer couldn't deliver. I've had it happen.
a) we're competing globally and some freelancers have a lower cost of living because of their location -- they can afford to bid less -- and there are always "company" bidders who bid on everything, whether or not they are qualified;
b) some qualified freelancers are trying to build their reputation on Elance and are willing to work for less (they'll learn soon enough the kind of clients who award jobs to lowest bidders); and
c) bargain hunters often learn that they get what they pay for.
Just as freelancers gain experience on Elance, clients do likewise. Experienced clients develop a checklist that includes quality, communication, promptness, and professionalism.
I've had potential clients contact me, asking me to lower my bid because they like my proposal and experience but so many others have bid less. I just tell them that my bid is reasonable and that if price is their primary consideration, they should hire one of those low bidders. My continuing availability on Elance depends on the ability to cover expenses. And I know the value of my skills and experience.
Don't lose heart, Naeem. There are many new clients trying online freelance resources for the first time. They'll learn that it's not about finding a bargain, but about finding the talents and skills they need for their project. And you never know. The client you mentioned who hired someone for 1/3 your original bid may come back and BEG you to do the job because that low-bid freelancer couldn't deliver. I've had it happen.
Marketing Professional
I've had the exact thing Claudia describes happen. The client went with a lower bidder and then came back to me to re-do the work that was delivered. I'm sure he' has learned his lesson. Don't lose hope, there are fair, decent clients out there.
Helping others find the right words
I appreciate the two previous comments by Colleen and Julia. I do sympathize with Naeem and understand. When I first started accepting jobs on Elance, I bid very low because it was very important to me to just get a job. Now that I have several jobs under my belt and I'm starting to realize the quality of my work, I understand that I'm going to have to raise the rates and price of my work.
And the way that I see it is exactly how Colleen described. If clients want quality and the job done right, I think they're going to be willing to pay more for the price. If not, they'll be willing to accept what they get. Everybody learns in this.
I wouldn't be upset. You know how much time a job like that would take and honestly, if you took that job for $300, you would only be angry because the price is not representative the work you would need to do for the job.
Take care,
I think you are strong for standing for the quality and price of your work.
And the way that I see it is exactly how Colleen described. If clients want quality and the job done right, I think they're going to be willing to pay more for the price. If not, they'll be willing to accept what they get. Everybody learns in this.
I wouldn't be upset. You know how much time a job like that would take and honestly, if you took that job for $300, you would only be angry because the price is not representative the work you would need to do for the job.
Take care,
I think you are strong for standing for the quality and price of your work.
Sr. Software Engineer/CEO at Honest IT Consultancy
Top Contributor
Colleen, Julia, and Audrey your comments were very thoughtful.
Yes, people often learn the lesson the hard way. My first freelance job was in 2011 and I billed $8.8/hour through ODesk. Now I'm charging anywhere between $15 to $25 depending on job nature. Last July I left a full time job in favor of freelancing, and shortly afterwards I realized that having freelancing as a nice side income was a different ball game compared to full time dependency on freelancing. If I will keep the prices low, I won't be able to pay the bills, if I will cheat employers sooner or later my profile will be removed(4.84 feedback).
Besides, if a person is worried about credit card bills s/he won't be able to deliver their best :)
Yes, people often learn the lesson the hard way. My first freelance job was in 2011 and I billed $8.8/hour through ODesk. Now I'm charging anywhere between $15 to $25 depending on job nature. Last July I left a full time job in favor of freelancing, and shortly afterwards I realized that having freelancing as a nice side income was a different ball game compared to full time dependency on freelancing. If I will keep the prices low, I won't be able to pay the bills, if I will cheat employers sooner or later my profile will be removed(4.84 feedback).
Besides, if a person is worried about credit card bills s/he won't be able to deliver their best :)
Training Consultant
Top Contributor
Stop worrying about it. Really, stop. If a client's budget is low, it's low. Ignore it and move on. There are clients on Elance who pay real rates and there are clients on Elance who do not. If you spend you're life focused on the frustrations; you're wasting time you could be using to reach out to the better clients.
I've lost projects to bids which I considered ridiculously low. I've even had clients apologize to me for their budget; "I know you'd be the best person for the job but I can't afford you." None of this prevents me from earning a decent crust on Elance.
I'm not religious but this sums this up pretty well:
God, give me grace to accept with serenity
the things that cannot be changed,
Courage to change the things
which should be changed,
and the Wisdom to distinguish
the one from the other.
I've lost projects to bids which I considered ridiculously low. I've even had clients apologize to me for their budget; "I know you'd be the best person for the job but I can't afford you." None of this prevents me from earning a decent crust on Elance.
I'm not religious but this sums this up pretty well:
God, give me grace to accept with serenity
the things that cannot be changed,
Courage to change the things
which should be changed,
and the Wisdom to distinguish
the one from the other.
Online Bidder at Brandoitte Technology Solution
Hi Naeem , you rightly pointed out. It is just because of Freelancers, the clients treat the entire IT world as a fish market. But my question is,-do the clients really get bug free apps at such a low price from such freelancers who have made fun of everything by offering such a low price?
Co-Founder at WebInfoMart
I think there must be an international association for professionals where people like us who are providing there services can set their standards. There should be a minimum price limit so that freelancers cannot go below that minimum limit.
For freelancing sites like odesk/elance I would suggest to please come out with some regulations in which employers cannot post a job below certain budget/amount. There should also be some categorisation of rates according to skills.
These days a lot of college students, part time freelancers and many spammers are signing up to these freelancing websites which are only trying these websites as another source to get some earnings, and as a result they are bidding very low to get jobs at any cost. They don't care about quality because for them its just a part time activity and they do not bother about maintaining their profiles.
For freelancing sites like odesk/elance I would suggest to please come out with some regulations in which employers cannot post a job below certain budget/amount. There should also be some categorisation of rates according to skills.
These days a lot of college students, part time freelancers and many spammers are signing up to these freelancing websites which are only trying these websites as another source to get some earnings, and as a result they are bidding very low to get jobs at any cost. They don't care about quality because for them its just a part time activity and they do not bother about maintaining their profiles.
Training Consultant
Top Contributor
@Keshav - there are plenty of unions, etc. that will provide those minimum or guideline prices. The trouble is that for Elance - there's no point in recognizing them. I hate to say it but in many categories; I could get incredibly good work done for peanuts. Newbies are particularly open to abusing themselves in the belief they must "go cheap to get started". Whenever I see a project for a year's work go for $500 - I wonder whether anyone sane is involved with it. The client won't get what they want. The freelancer will not deliver. What was the point in the exercise?
Elance's $3 an hour and $20 project minimums suck but an increase will only drive people into the arm's of Odesk and the abysmal Freelancer.com (where getting taken for a ride is a near guarantee).
Elance's $3 an hour and $20 project minimums suck but an increase will only drive people into the arm's of Odesk and the abysmal Freelancer.com (where getting taken for a ride is a near guarantee).
All about form and function
Top Contributor
Keshav, there are international freelancers unions, but since their members don't work for one boss and membership is voluntary, there is no way to set standard pricing.
Elance does have minimums: $3/hr for hourly jobs and $20 for fixed-price jobs. It would be wonderful if Elance would raise those rates to more realistic amounts, but that is probably be the average rate somewhere in the world (certainly not in the US, where most clients are located).
The college students and casual laborers don't last long, but there's always another batch of them signing up. Seriously, I don't think I want to work for the client who sorts the proposals according to price and then hires the lowest bidder. If that low bid is 10 times the current minimum, that client is still focused on cost, not quality.
The client who wants quality? They'll pay you what you are worth. Don't bid lower hoping to work for a client who looks only at price.
Elance does have minimums: $3/hr for hourly jobs and $20 for fixed-price jobs. It would be wonderful if Elance would raise those rates to more realistic amounts, but that is probably be the average rate somewhere in the world (certainly not in the US, where most clients are located).
The college students and casual laborers don't last long, but there's always another batch of them signing up. Seriously, I don't think I want to work for the client who sorts the proposals according to price and then hires the lowest bidder. If that low bid is 10 times the current minimum, that client is still focused on cost, not quality.
The client who wants quality? They'll pay you what you are worth. Don't bid lower hoping to work for a client who looks only at price.
Sr. Software Engineer/CEO at Honest IT Consultancy
Top Contributor
A third party "guardian angel" won't make things better IMO. I'm working with a client who's spent more than $50,000 via ODesk and I can see that they're hiring in a very different way compared to cost focused clients.
I once hired a Bangla(nothing personal) freelancer who later turned out to be a student, once I realized what I was dealing with I wanted to close the project but then I thought he's just a student trying to make some extra bucks and I let the project roll slowly. Young man had a below average programming and English language, it took several lengthy Skype calls to explain specifications and getting things done.
I wonder why someone will get into such a mess willingly?
I agree with Nik, good freelancers still get some good projects and nobody's starving to death :)
I once hired a Bangla(nothing personal) freelancer who later turned out to be a student, once I realized what I was dealing with I wanted to close the project but then I thought he's just a student trying to make some extra bucks and I let the project roll slowly. Young man had a below average programming and English language, it took several lengthy Skype calls to explain specifications and getting things done.
I wonder why someone will get into such a mess willingly?
I agree with Nik, good freelancers still get some good projects and nobody's starving to death :)
Application design, architechture and performance consultant
According to me.. its vital to assess clients. We do it rigorously as we don't want to work for anyone and everyone, but only for those who and understand value of quality work.
Here is a small quick guide on how we assess clients to avoid future troubles
http://blogs.xcesslogic.com/how-to-predict-and-avoid-a-bad-future-client/
Here is a small quick guide on how we assess clients to avoid future troubles
http://blogs.xcesslogic.com/how-to-predict-and-avoid-a-bad-future-client/
Sr. Software Engineer/CEO at Honest IT Consultancy
Top Contributor
@Akash Sareen the blog piece was awesome, it was clearly based on real world experiences. I've shared it on Facebook/Twitter... And Linked In as well...
Sr. Software Engineer/CEO at Honest IT Consultancy
Top Contributor
Dear friends, I want to publish this thread on my freelancing blog with your permission. Please let me know if anybody does not like the idea :)
My blog: http://freelancetime.blogspot.com
My blog: http://freelancetime.blogspot.com
Chamesou T****: I hope that you agree that there is a big difference between someone with a nice steady job and does freelancer on a side, versus someone who relies solely on freelancing to make a living. It is very difficult to make them accept the same standard in price, because of the many factors involved: how much the work is worth to them, where do they live, how much free time they have, how difficult it has been to get a job, how much much experience/seniority/they have, do they already have a code that will do the job quickly compared to a bidder who would have to start from scratch, etc.
